As the op expanded up the greasy pole of high society, the job got canned – sergeant
By Alex Varley-Winter | 13 December 2014
Exaro today publishes extracts of five discussion threads in which serving and former officers from Scotland Yard talk about police operations into paedophiles.
The participants in the discussions mostly were – while some still are – officers of the Metropolitan Police Service. Some also worked for other agencies, such as the National Crime Squad.
Another identifies himself as having worked for “UK gov”, and said that he signed the Official Secrets Act.
In total, 14 participants talk about a cover-up of paedophiles at the top of UK society, and six of them claim to have direct knowledge. Others say that they were told by colleagues or do not specify the basis of their claims.
Exaro has been monitoring conversations that took place on the closed online forum over four months.
One member gave us access to the conversations on condition that we did not identify either the forum or any of the people taking part.
We have used pseudonyms, but given brief descriptions of their careers on first mentions below.
The extracts are reproduced as written, but we have made one redaction to protect the identity of an officer named by a former colleague. Explanatory additions, where needed, are added in square brackets.
The discussions include some coarse language, as might be expected of police officers. Anyone of a sensitive disposition should look away now.
The online forum is aimed at enabling retired officers from the Met to keep in contact. Membership of the forum is carefully controlled so that only people who have worked for the Met can join. The forum’s administrator is a former Met police officer.
The first conversation, which ran from July 8 to 9, was prompted by a newspaper article about Christopher Fay, who was an adviser to National Association for Young People in Care (NAYPIC), a campaign group that has since closed.
The article reported his claims that a detective from Special Branch warned him around 14 years ago to “back away” from allegations surrounding Elm Guest House, the notorious paedophile brothel in south-west London. Fay claims that the officer pinned him to the wall, throttled him and held a gun to his head.
The discussion starts with a reference to John Bindon, the gangster-turned-actor who reportedly had an affair with Princess Margaret in the 1970’s when she was married to Lord Snowdon. Princess Margaret, the Queen’s sister, died in 2002.
The conversation starts with a posting of the newspaper article, published last year, on the gun threat by a Special Branch detective, as alleged by Fay.
Tony (retired Met officer): John Bindon always claimed the same thing happened to him over the Princess Margaret scandal
Gary (Met officer, understood to be serving still): Was wondering when the bad police stories would start coming out. Didn’t take long.
Samantha (former Met officer who served for around 27 years and worked in a range of roles, including surveillance): I believe it. I know of instances when SB [Special Branch] crossed boundaries that any police officer would find abhorrent.
Mickey (former Met officer who served for around 32 years in south London): In my experience SB officers and MI5 etc always tended to be posh boys and not the threatening type, would believe it if it was Flying Squad
Samantha: Mickey I know of things that SB did that would make your hair curl. They were not all posh boys believe me. They did however feel that the rules didn’t apply to them… As James Patrick [the police officer who blew the whistle on how the Met manipulated crime statistics] found whistle blowers are not thanked. I and others have seen and heard or been present when things have been glossed over ‘hidden’ or down right destroyed. I still wouldn’t talk about it unless I knew I was safe.
June (uniformed sergeant in Met, still serving): We’ve all been outraged and incredulous the past few days that these things happened unchecked. The victims (especially if children in care) will be easy targets for discrediting. Here is someone apparently speaking out… We are by profession cynical and enquiring but any rank-closing is exactly what allowed these crimes to continue for so long.
Jonathan (says that he worked for “UK gov” and signed the Official Secrets Act; does not state the agency for which he worked): The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. “Edmund Burke 1770”
Roy (retired Special Branch officer): SB for 30+ years so saying nothing except that a lot of rubbish has been posted on here about SB. I am not posh but believe that my contribution in many terrorist / public order events made a difference and assisted colleagues in uniform at the sharp end. I am proud of my service in SB. This story is, in my opinion, a FLOB… The scenario described here is frankly, ridiculous. I had a great time in my chosen path in the MP [Met]. And let’s not forget that SB was shafted and no longer exists thanks to the powers in the Security Services [MI5] and the weak senior management in the MP.
Craig (ex-officer): I plainly just do not believe that circa 1990 an officer pointed a gun at someone’s head. I can believe that senior officers and top civil servants and politicians decided that it would not be pursued however.
Jack (former detective in the Met, including Special Ops, for 18 years): I’m afraid that Samantha’s posts have the ring of “I was once told…” about them
Samantha: Jack I have some friends in SB and I do not tar them all with the same brush. This is not something I made up it is things that I have seen first hand
Jim (ex-Met officer, served for 30 years, mainly uniform, but also spent a couple of years in CID): … I’m not sure some of you get it… Whilst the majority of us have been pointing at burglars, thieves and street level drug dealers. Some very senior people have been habitually sexually assaulting the most vulnerable in society. Although I can’t place a particular instance I can recall occasions when a young thief begging me not to let the social worker take him back to a children’s home because they are all nonces, and as you did you thought he was just being difficult. The right minded ones amongst us need to be searching our own recollection of events in the 70s and 80s whether like some on here they know of raids being stopped by senior officers, or whether it was an investigation that has been stopped. Yes there will be people coming forward with slightly inaccurate recollections and there will be people that have put two and two together and don’t come up with 4. But we need to ensure that we openly encourage people to come forward, and support them. No one I hope is saying any section of the police was corrupt or indeed all senior officers were. A man has recounted his story it needs to be tested. Not immediately rejected. The truth is that the establishment is rotten and we need to sort it out.
Another discussion thread, which also ran from July 8 to 9, began following the appointment of Baroness Butler-Sloss, former High Court judge, to chair the overarching inquiry into child sex abuse (CSA) that Theresa May, home secretary, had announced the day before.
Participants refer to ‘Operation Circus’, which carried out surveillance from 1986 of a place in central London that was notorious for men to look for underage boys for sex – the so-called “meat rack” at Piccadilly Circus.
Bob (retired as a Met sergeant after 30 years’ service): Another fucking ‘whitewash’ coming. The corrupt fuckers.
Simon (retired Met officer from specialist operations): Did you really expect anything else from the government?
Jim: … She is very much part of the establishment.
Dave (former surveillance officer, also served in territorial support group (TSG), was in Met for 23 years): They do live in “Fluffy G&T Land” don’t they?
Norman (a Met contractor for many years, but was never a police officer): There’s a ‘conspiracy’ theory that I didn’t pay too much attention to before, and it is that those with power, wealth and influence deliberately promote and encourage those with serious character flaws like sex offenders etc so that no matter how powerful that person gets they can control and influence everything. Doesn’t sound so far fetched now.
Dave: have heard it goes much higher Norman…? [confused face]
Norman: The last time I mentioned ‘Freemasons’ I got a bit of a caning on here, but I don’t think it will be long before it gets mentioned in this.
Dave: Try even higher, then Norman.. [winking face] Not Masons<
June: Dave do you allude to Royalty?
Dave: June er…. (nods quickly)… [smiley face]
Matthew (Ex-Met sergeant, left three years ago after 33 years’ service]: Dave I don’t know if you were on 8 TSG when we did the big surveillance op on the paedophile ring but all we were following were Lawyers and bloody Police Officers! (oddly as the op expanded up the greasy pole of high society the job got canned…)
Dave: Nope, I was told by C team about it when I joined just after you left I think Matthew… We had the same on the crime squad at DM [Marylebone police station]…
Simon (nothing known about career): Matthew, was your job a result of “Operation Circus” in the mid 1980’s
Matthew: No, this was late 80s but a spin off of circus Simon
Simon: I know following circus there were a number of jobs that sprung up, would have been about 1984/5
Paul (a serving detective constable (DC) in the Met): Matthew. Must’ve been the investigation I heard about at Wapping that got canned. Disgraceful order from above
Derek (was in Special Branch for 28 years, and a freemason): What is it with you and the Freemasons then Norman? You seem obsessed.
Norman: I’m just waiting for their ‘malign influence’ to be bought up in this. Time will tell.
Derek: Norman. We’ve already been down this road old chap. Forget about these imagined esoteric conspiracies. There ain’t none. We just want to live in harmony with all mankind (and womankind), do our little bit for charity and the community, and live in peace with our neighbours, some of whom are, unavoidably, our detractors. We respect all religions, creeds and colours and scrupulously avoid political intrigue or Machiavellian machinations.
Apart from that of course, we are intent on World Domination within the next five years,
Norman: As soon as it’s mentioned I’ll link it to this thread. If not you will of course have my humble apology to secret societies in general.
A third discussion thread ran on July 12. A retired, long-serving constable raised the claims about VIP paedophiles three decades ago by Geoffrey Dickens, the late Conservative MP, who submitted dossiers on the subject to Sir Leon (now Lord) Brittan, then home secretary.
Just before this discussion, the Home Office admitted that it had lost or destroyed 114 files from between 1979 and 1999 that were “potentially relevant” to child sex abuse. Dickens’ dossiers are also missing from the Home Office.
Reg (retired PC, served for 30 years until 2010): Strange, how some MPs are saying that the late Geoffrey Dickens was a publicity seeker and not too much importance should be attached to his allegations of a Westminster paedophile ring. Whilst others are saying it was such a long time ago that a proper investigation would be unlikely to lead to safe convictions. I agree with the last point, with 114 files going missing plus Geoffrey Dickens original dossier a thorough investigation will be difficult. I mean if it wasn’t for the fact that they were all honourable persons I would be inclined to think they were trying to cover things up.
Dave: Corrupt to the core
Reg: We all heard whispers when we were serving, especially in the eighties, but it seems the scale was immense. I don’t care how much it costs to bring justice to those who were abused, lets show that nobody is above the law.
Another cynical observation, the Levenson [sic] report, surely not a ploy to strangle a free investigative press from reporting on things like this.
Jonathan: The cover up began in 1985 when operations were closed for no apparent reason except that prominent persons were allegedly involved and again in 1990 and again over the North Wales child abuse and successive governments have continued the practice so don’t hold your breath that anything will change anytime soon but don’t get angry! Get even, join your local party and together with disaffected police, teachers, fire service and NHS staff and at AGM vote them all out and start again. Should you all ‘like this’ phones in constituencies will start ringing!
The following day, forum members started to discuss ‘Operation Ore’, an investigation by police forces in the UK into subscribers to a US-based website who were alleged to have accessed indecent images of children. Police identified 7,250 suspects, made 3,744 arrests, which resulted in 1,451 convictions. Ministers, MPs and judges were reportedly among the suspects.
‘Operation Hedgerow’ also features in the discussion. It sprang out of Operation Circus and carried out surveillance from 1987 to 1989 on a paedophile ring that operated within the London boroughs of Brent and Ealing. Operation Hedgerow led to 20 arrests and 14 convictions.
The Met later investigated links between Peters and Elm Guest House under ‘Operation Fernbridge’, an investigation into the notorious paedophile brothel that was prompted by Exaro two years ago.
Earlier this year, Peters denied having anything to do with Elm Guest House.
This fourth discussion thread ran from July 13 to 14.
Dale (Met officer, but unclear whether he is still serving and little is known about his career): About time Op Ore was resurrected. It was only squashed due to political pressure. Certainly a good time to bring it back. Should ruffle some feathers.
Frank (ex-Met Officer; and moved on to work in US law enforcement]: Op Ore had its wings clipped from the beginning. It’s time to remove all political interference and take the gloves off.
Adam (was in Met for 30 years until 2012, worked in crime prevention): Hedgerow might be more interesting got very close to Parliament.
June: Hedgerow? Like, where you find might [sic] snakes, weasels, toads and moles
Ray (a long-serving sergeant in the Met): A long long time ago when i was on the crime squad we had a di [detective inspector] who used to stay very late in his office drinking whisky. He was a nice guy. Good cop. He used to tell you about an op he was on which uncovered paedos at the highest parts of the gov and society. Then he told how sb shut it all down in one day. Took all the files and evidence. I never really knew if it was a ‘lamp swinging’ [wildly exaggerated story] back then. I do now. Poor bastard. That broke him. I want these people nailed to a wall for what they did to those kids and the good cops who tried to stop them.
Adam: It was all true and got very close.
Rob (former detective constable in the Met, who is understood to have been in the diplomatic protection group in the 1980’s): Ray… what year was that? Not 1986/7 perchance?
Ray: I was with him in 94. So yes it would have been about then that he was working on that op. Not going to say his name due to still serving and you don’t know who is reading.
Rob: Thing is Ray…. I do know who’s reading these… some of our comments can be useful as we recollect the past to current enquiries. Apparently.
A month later, officers talk about a celebrity who has been accused of child sex abuse. We are not naming him, and have omitted other details from the discussion here, for legal reasons. Participants make a series of defamatory comments about the celebrity, when one of them warns about making such remarks.
Steve (retired from Met four years ago): … He’s a rich man and has clever lawyers. They’ll come after anyone making inferences and they could make life miserable for any one making comments above and beyond the facts.
Don (retired detective with 30 years’ service, including some time at the National Crime Squad): [The celebrity] has a ‘file’ from the ‘60’s… allegedly.
Bob: OK, My position is from 1st hand, knowing what the Government & high ranking officers did to a DC who was investigating all this and possessed SOLID evidence. They destroyed the poor fella, ALL evidence was destroyed or disappeared & so on, I need explain no more and yes it involved the care home we are all reading about. I truly hope, for the DC’s sake, that the truth comes out.
Gina (ex-Met inspector, worked in Ealing, west London): Don precisely what i heard. Plus, not to be researched etc as was audited in respect of searches. I sincerely hope that the rumours/instructions from the early 80s are as credible as “I got bitten on holiday and four weeks later my spot burst and loads of baby spiders scurried out”. God help the organization if anything comes to fruition.
Don: Gina, I was made aware of the ‘file’ in ’77 by a colleague who had sight of it. I must confess that it’s [sic] content rocked me back on my heels….. and still does.
Bob: In old fashion terms this is a huge ‘Cluster fuck’ caused SOLEY by CORRUPT Politicians & CORRUPT, high ranking, officers. High office religious people are in this ‘pot’ as well. Sit back and watch things develop. I hope, beyond hope, that the poor DC who was ‘stuffed’ over this gets their day and millions in compensation too.
Mark (serving sergeant in Met): Bottom line here is tis [sic] that there is one almighty cover up gone on here over many years, involving many people Politicians/Police/Social Workers/Masons/Church etc. It remains to be seen if there is the strength and commitment in society to bring it all out in to the open. I have my doubts. It maybe deemed to [sic] damaging to the fabric and status of the establishment.
Rob: … The hunt continues and more bombshells will appear. Those that felt ‘protected’ will and should be worried…
In late October, a sixth discussion is prompted by the disclosure of details of links between Fiona Woolf, the second person who was appointed to chair the CSA inquiry after Butler-Sloss’s resignation, and Brittan, who had received the Dickens material that later went missing.
Jim: … This is about kids being raped by those in power that included politicians of all sorts. It goes to the very heart of our establishment. There is very clear evidence that the general nature of the allegations are true. There are enough officers on this site who have mentioned paedophile ops involving high profile politicians being stopped at the eleventh hour.
Stevie (former detective constable in the Met): Jim…, I need to sit down. Agree again. In the 90’s I uncovered a middle class Paedo ring at [a police station in east London]. It linked into a massive UC [undercover] Paedo job which was being run by [a named detective sergeant (DS)]. The UC who shall remain nameless found that it went to cabinet level and 4 years of work was pulled overnight. This will be messy so it’s vital it’s chaired by the right person
If you have information that might help our investigation into child sex abuse, please contact us. Keep re-visiting Exaro for more on this investigation.
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